*Q*:
r u there?
JJD:
yes
*Q*:
the word trinity is not in bible so why believe on it? ive posed quest why trinity is basic believe, if that ve been removed
by 32 christian scholars in revised standard version of bible
JJD:
Does it matter?
*Q*:
yes! why scholar removed it from revised edition , as they said it as fabrication n concoction?
JJD:
I don't know….why does it matter?
*Q*:
coz it explains that jesus, spirit n father r one, but scholars says that this is fabrication….why?
JJD:
I don't know
*Q*:
dont u think that this act shatter the basic belief of christianity
JJD:
I don’t really. I think people choose what they want to believe and aren’t persuaded by arguments
*Q*:
so tell me, who is god?
JJD:
I can't tell you that, you have to find Him for yourself. It begins with wanting to know Him
*Q*:
myself????? how
JJD: If all you wish to do is to tear down
other's beliefs, then is it more important to be right than to seek God in your own heart?
*Q*:
of course by reading scriptures that claims of devine origin
JJD:
reading scriptures is a beginning, but you have to want to see truth there and not seek to tear it down, because whatever
else you can say about the Bible, there is truth there
*Q*:
ive started studying christianity but im confused by various versions of bible
JJD:
Just pick one and study it…Read it, practice it
*Q*:
there r so many religions claiming devinity
JJD:
That’s what religion is
*Q*:
how can one justify one of the religions
JJD:
Do you not find truth in your own faith?
*Q*:
is it that all religions r true? or only one is right?
JJD:
Not that all religions are true, but that there may be truth in all religions
*Q*:
of course only one should be
JJD:
Let God be true, and every man a liar. Isn’t there truth in creation, in the rocks and the trees? Isn’t there
truth in your own conscience, your own ability to reason?
*Q*:
yes ur
right
JJD:
Seek God. If you seek him, then faith will grow
*Q*:
there might be truth in all regions but all cannot b true
JJD:
Of course they can't be
*Q*:
what do u think, faith on god should b random or after searching the true religion
JJD:
I think that you should be seeking God regardless of what your religion is
*Q*:
i think no, as religion is more than faith
JJD:
Of course it is. I think religion has more to do with culture than truth
*Q*:
so we have to choose for only true religion
JJD:
Listen if you seek God you will find Him....that He promises us....your understanding of Him and your faith in Him will grow,
no matter where your understanding of Him begins
*Q*:
n my logic says to test the truth
JJD:
Test the truth. That's a good attitude
*Q*:
what do u think bible is scripture, authentic witout changes
JJD:
I don't know about all that. It sounds like a loaded question, like you’re trying to paint me into a corner. What I
do know is that God speaks to me through truths that are in the Bible, but also through the Dammapada, through the entirety
of creation. I even have a Koran. But I believe that the Bible is God's word
*Q*:
one should know that, if u believe on it. thats what im doing….u said u have Quran?
JJD:
yes. I have read bits of it but not all of it
*Q*:
have u read that? dont u think taht both r word of god?
JJD:
Well I think there is truth in the Koran, but I don't know if it's God's word
*Q*:
u must believe. im doing the same, n ive found quran speaking abt trinity, not to believe on it. it talk abt jesus as God
messenger
JJD: Well I think whatever you believe
about doctrine and theology is less important than how open you are to God's revelation. Just continue to seek Him
*Q*:
u have also read Quran?
JJD:
I've not studied it too much but I have read parts, and also some texts on commentary. I'm not an expert or anything but I
keep an open mind about things
*Q*:
thats a good thing, we must do that
JJD: I think the more open we are to new
ideas, the more we allow God to speak to us
*Q*:
so what did u find there? any thing appealing or rejecting?
JJD:
Compared to the Bible, and the Dhammapada, the Koran seems very harsh and rigid
*Q*:
harsh n rigid agianst what?
JJD:
Well...I should say, it doesn't seem quite as bad about some things as the very orthodox, Old Testamenet type laws.....but
it seems to focus more on what you DO in your day to day life......Do you know that many Christians have a faith that casts
God in a very judgemental role? As if He is always angry at us. I don't believe that He is....That is not how God has revealed
Himself to me
*Q*:
u r right…he must b sweet
JJD:
So tell me what you believe...?
*Q*:
i believe that god must forbid us from wrongs n at the same time if we have done something wrong n what to revert back, he
must b ready to give us shelter, love n hope
JJD:
The KOran says that Muslims should seek common ground with both Christians and Jews (People of the Book) …Do you believe
that?
*Q*:
As i know Quran also claims that christian,n jews r followers of his messengers, mosses n jesus…n muslims r folower
of Muhammd peace on all of them…so they must come to the common terms
JJD:
Exactly. Aren't muslims also followers of the Prophet Moses? And the prophet Jesus?
*Q*:
yes they r…Quran says that if someone believe on Muhammad but not onjesus n moses (peace on all of them), then he is
not muslim
JJD:
So why do you think there is conflict?
*Q*:
what conflict?
JJD:
Why do muslims fight jews? Why do Christians fight muslims?
*Q*:
i think prob is that they r not in common terms as Muslims God told them, meaning to say, jews n christians r claiming messengers
of god as son of god, n Jews donot consider Muhammad(PBUH) as messenger, rather they have hatred towards him
JJD:
So you believe that the problem is that Christians don't agree with muslims?
*Q*: as i hve read in Quran............of
course
JJD:
And the solution is for everyone to believe in the Koran?
*Q*:
they say Jesus is god but not messenger, so there lies the difference. solution 4 every one is to believe on truth n find
which one of thse books is true not changed after its revelation
JJD:
Do you not see why some people would find that attitude offensive?
*Q*:
offensive for what? u mean agaist there religion? NO, coz quran speak first to
cum to common terms that to worship none but Allah, as was the message in all 4 revelation
JJD:
Coming to common terms doesn't mean that we should all believe the same thing…People will always believe differently
*Q*:
yes If there is some same thing
JJD:
Common terms means that we recognize our differences, but focus on what we have in common so that we can move forward
*Q*:
and there is Im sure same thing in all revelations, thats why i was telling u that there is no word trinity in bible….in
fact the nearmost statement which seems to give the concept of trinity has been removed by hristian scholars as fabrication….i
think they r coming to common terms
JJD:
You seem to be hung up on this idea of the trinity
*Q*:
whhat is common?
JJD:
Is it ok that I believe in the TRinity?
*Q*:
no its all right what do u think
JJD:
Finding common ground means that we don't focus on this idea, but that we instead try to understand one another
*Q*:
but shall i adress few common things bw islam n christianity? "Say not ‘Trinity’:
desist: It will be better for you for Allah is one God. They do blaspheme who say Allah is one of three In a Trinity: for
there is No god except One God. If they desist not From their word (of blasphemy), Verily a grievous penalty Will befall the
blasphemers Among them."
JJD:
Christians don't believe in 3 gods, they believe that God has three separate and distinct aspects
*Q*:
i know that
JJD:
So why do you focus on that one belief?
*Q*:
coz Quran adress this concept of trinity n jesus himself never claim divinity n he says "I
can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgement is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will
of the Father which hath sent me." if father n son were one then why did he say, i seek not mine will if both were same
JJD:
You're quoting the Koran to a Christian, and using that to support your argument that Jesus is not God? Are you seeking God
in your heart, or are you simply trying to prove that Islam is true? People will always believe what they want to believe
*Q*:
no im qoting u partly from bible…i can give u reffernce
JJD:
It's irrelevant. I wouldn’t tell you that how you choose to understand God is wrong, but I will say that if you say
that God can only be understood by your own religious perspective, then you're limiting what God can do in your life
*Q*:
dont end it in this way. im just discussing
JJD:
I'm not ending anything. I'm not offended…I'm listening to you. But don't you understand that I'm not trying to persuade
you one way or the other? I understand that you have your own faith. All I'm saying is that you shouldn't focus on the idea
that your faith is the only faith. I would say the same thing to a Christian or a Jew. Be open to what God wants to show you,
even if it's outside the boundaries of what you already believe about Him
*Q*:
the verse i quoted to u was The Gospel of John, chapter 5 verse 30
JJD: Ok
*Q*:
n again write 2 u "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge and my judgement is just, because I seek not mine
own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.” what will u sy on that
JJD:
What am I supposed to say? Why are you trying to engage me in debate?
*Q*:
no im not..dont take it like that…i ve just told u how it seems to me as it was for u
JJD:
What else do you know of the New Testament besides that one verse?
*Q*:
The Gospel of John, chapter 14 verse 28 "My father is greater than I."
JJD:
What else do you know of Jesus and His teachings in the Gospels?
*Q*:
why he said that? why if father n son were same?
JJD:
You seem to know all the verses that support what you already believe. And you quote them with better English than you normally
speak. I’m wondering if you’ve honestly read any of the Gospels with an open mind, or just learned bits and pieces
from commentaries that are used to discredit Christians?
*Q*:
what can i say t u as what i tell u u get offensive? correct me wid refference if im wrong
JJD:
I don't need to....because I'm not asking you to abandon your own faith. And if I quote other Scripture, will that persuade
you to abandon your own faith, your own family and your own culture to become a Christian? But you quote scripture to me,
I'm asking you, have you READ the Gospel of John, and do you know what it means?
*Q*:
ok …he said in the Gospel, "I and my Father are one." so this support devinity
right?
JJD:
You’re the one quoting it, what do you think?
*Q*:
Do you know the context?"
JJD:
No I'm afraid I don't
*Q*:
To get at the context, we have to begin from verse 23 which reads "And Jesus (pbuh)
walked in the temple in Solomon’s porch."
JJD:
So you, a Muslim, are telling me how I should interpret Christian scripture?
*Q*:
if u'll respond in that way it will b diff to understand the truth 4 me n u as well
JJD:
I'm not trying to persuade you one way or the other
*Q*:
ive like ur approach
JJD:
I understand what you believe, I'm just asking that you be open to the possibilities that God's Truth may be bigger than your
own faith
*Q*:
u hve read other religion along with urs to get the truth so dont stuck with this if u say shall i continue quoting
JJD:
That there may be more than one way to understand God, and that many of those ways might contain aspects of the truth? I believe
that there is truth in Islam
*Q*:
yes thats both of us trying to say 2each other
JJD:
But I don't believe that Islam contains Truth in its entirety…And you try to engage me in debate about the validity
of the Christian faith?
*Q*:
no i believ that christians have very strong belief which is might b misrepresented to them, in fact i claim that im more
christian with the faith which i have. when ever i give u references u close ur
eyes towards truth. why dont u give me explanation 4 that? im not apreacher,
just wanna seek truth…even dont believe in my religion blindly
JJD:
But you don't want to seek the truth.....you quote all the scriptures that support what you already believe, and then explain
away all the ones that don't. Do you know what the Gospel of John teaches us about how we all should live our lives??
*Q*:
not all scriptures, bible
JJD:
Do you know what the Gospel accounts teach about mercy and faith and forgiveness?? Or have you sought truth in the teachings
of the Buddha? You are very good at defending the faith of the Muslim
*Q*:
n say u agree that ur scripture have the words written of
my faith? sorry u agree that bible has some statement which belong to my faith
JJD:
But what if God wants to show you something, or has some purpose for you, that is beyond the restrictions of your faith or
culture? What then?
*Q*:
u r right thats why im not reffering the Quran only im reading bible also, n it proves my claims, in fact bible n Quran r
written by the same God but bible has been manipulated to some extent or misrepresented by scholars…what ever im saying
is not from Quran, its from bible, n u tell me that im retricted to my faith, my faith, my faith but in fact im quoting from
bible…so u have closed ur eyes from truth of bible not me
JJD:
But you're using the Bible to prop up what you already believe
*Q*:
u say that im seeking from my point of view
JJD:
Yes
*Q*:
bible supports me, im again saying clear me if if wrong i want justification to my inner to b wrong
JJD:
You want me to prove to you that you're wrong?
*Q*:
thats why im seeking guidance from Christian…u did not understand me, guide me if u can but dond get offensive
JJD:
I’m not offended, but I can't guide you. I can offer you no proof that you're wrong, and I wouldn't want to. Only God
can do that
*Q*:
a good chritian must do
JJD:
Do YOU think you're wrong????
*Q*:
god will not cum to me now
JJD:
Why?
*Q*:
he has send u his revelation to justify it n explain it. i hve said this coz u r telling me that im bias in understanding
towards faith, so u should tell me the right way of thinking
JJD:
I don't have the right way that you should think. Only God does. Seek Him. Don't look for answers from me, or from any person.
Look for answers from Him
*Q*:
what i ahve today is not from any one else but from God, n u say its wrong. these r the answers which i got from God
JJD:
I didn't say that you were wrong, I just said that your system of belief may not be complete
*Q*:
but Quran n bible both claims that there will be final prophet by God with final revelation, so its complete
JJD:
So everything that you know about God right now is all that you will ever need to know????
*Q*:
no absolutely not…thats why i seek other devine books as well, old n new testament
JJD:
But all you do is use those books to prop up what you already believe
*Q*:
i hve found bible saying the same
JJD:
You haven't read the Bible, you've read Muslim commentaries on the Bible
*Q*:
brother shall i tel u one thing? if i had not read the bible from where i got references…im telling u chap n verse no.
but shall i tell u one thing, during all that, u claiming being Christian, not even read ur own bible which speaks abt the
truth…dont argue endlessly, only wid reference
JJD:
I'm not arguing with you
*Q*:
n u never did throughout this conversation?
JJD:
I haven't defended my faith or challenged yours, I'm just asking that you be open to possibilities as God presents them to
you, And not be so short-sighted as to believe that your faith is complete
*Q*:
ok…do u think that ur faith is complete
JJD:
No
*Q*:
n u not short sighted? so what do u say? what u ahve to do now to get completion?
JJD:
I say that I try to always be open to God in whatever manner that He presents Himself.
I won’t get completion until I meet Him
*Q*:
u say that ur open in whatever MANNER he presents himself
to u? but when i ve started telling u the other side of truth , u rejected it. is that ur
open mind?
JJD:
I didn't reject anything. I just didn’t agree with you, and rather than try to share your own faith with me, all
you’ve done is try to show me why mine is wrong…I just didn't debate it with you
*Q*:
well, i think both of us need time to think over it, not to reject both of us, n seek open heartedly
JJD:
Don't think that just becuase I haven't agreed with everything you've said, doesn't mean you haven't challenged me. I am listening
to you But....Instead of trying to tear down my own faith, if you would present your own faith to me, it would go a lot farther
*Q*:
r u serious? checking me?
JJD:
Yes. I'm just saying, Tell me why you're Muslim. What do you like about Islam? What does it give you, what is good about it?
If you told me these things, I would be a lot more open to you. When you try to prove how Chritsianity is wrong, it doesn't
help me….it doesn’t offend me, because I expect that as a Muslim you believe differently than me, but it doesn’t
help me understand Islam
*Q*:
im really sincere abt religion, n hope u would be
JJD:
I believe you are, Which is why I haven't tried to tear down your faith
*Q*:
b4 i continue, i never say christianity is wrong
JJD:
You tried to argue about the divinity of Christ
*Q*:
im chriastian more than christian
JJD:
If you want to teach me about Islam, teach me
*Q*:
coz i'll not be muslim then. dont say that brother. who am i to teach u? i'll just share what i know abt it, coz im not scholar,
im just student
JJD:
So share with me what it is to be Muslim, and don't tell me not to be Christian
*Q*:
Chapter 112 of the Qur’an says "Say: He is Allah, The One and Only. "Allah, the
Eternal, Absolute. "He begets not, nor is He begotten. And there is none like unto Him."
JJD:
I agree
*Q*:
u agree?
JJD:
Yes, There is one God, And we all worship Him, And we all seek Him in our hearts…You and me, and all of Islam, and Christendom,
and every Buddhist and Hindu, every human heart seeks Him. We don't understand Him the same way
*Q*:
he begetts not nor is he begotten???? what abt that
JJD:
What about it?
*Q*:
i said what abt the staement in verse that he begets not, nor begotten? was jesus not begotten son
JJD:
I accept that you have your own beliefs, do you accept that I have mine?
*Q*:
ok…next Quran says, "No son did Allah beget, Nor is there any god Along with
Him: (if there were Many gods), behold, each god Would have taken away What he had created, And some would have Lorded it
over others! Glory to Allah! (He is free) From the (sort of) things They attribute to Him!" [Al-Qur’an 23:91]
JJD:
You're still trying to persuade me that Muslim is the one true faith….I want to know what it means to be Muslim
*Q*:
no one can force u 2 b muslim
JJD:
I want to know how God is present in the Muslim faith. I don't want to know that every other faith is wrong
*Q*:
thats what i was telling u, n u interupted me
JJD:
Perhaps you are the wrong one to teach me?
*Q*:
i was just quoting the Quranic vrses to u, i never said to change ur
belief
JJD:
Ok
*Q*:
i told u i m not teaching u
JJD:
Forgive me….Go ahead, proceed
*Q*:
dontdo that 2 me, why ssaying to forgive? u get offensive by ur
self n again let down me by saying to forgive
JJD:
I mean, I apologize
*Q*:
brother what u r? it hard to understnd u…i apoligize if ur
heart…i was just doing what u told me to share Quranic verses
JJD:
ok go ahead, tell me what you believe
*Q*:
i must tell u b4 dont cheat me…i hope christianity also preaches that
JJD:
I want to know what YOU believe, I want to know why you believe it and how it leads you to peace
*Q*:
dont waste my time, if u r muslim
JJD:
I'm not Muslim, and I won't be a Muslim, But if you can help me understand what it means to be a Muslim, and I can tell others
what it means to be a Muslim, how can that be a bad thing?
*Q*:
fine…i continue…"There is nothing Whatever like unto Him, And He is the One That hears and sees (all things).
And most of them Believe not in Allah Without associating (others As partners) with Him!"
JJD:
Can I ask you something?
*Q*:
sure
JJD:
Can you tell me what it means to be a Muslim without quoting the Koran? How does it make you feel? How does Allah show Himself
to you in your every day life?
*Q*:
As u feel abt God, always he is there
JJD:
Now you and I are talking about the same thing
*Q*:
what evr ur belief is
JJD:
He is always there
*Q*:
but people have manipulated his truth, the inner feeling is always same. He says in Quran "If thou ask them, Who Created them,
they will Certainly say, ‘Allah’: how Then are they deluded Away (from the Truth)?"
JJD:
Does God speak to you ONLY through the Quran? Does He not speak to you in your heart? And if I tell you that God also speaks
to me in my own heart, is that not the common ground that we spoke of earlier??
